Let's discuss something.......

[Mona Wright]

Hello River Peeps! I have clearly not been at the River for a very long time. And by the looks of My Page it's painly obvious I have no idea what I'm doing. But God lead me here today and it looks like there have been some really cool changes at The River! I still don't know what I'm doing but it looks like there have been no discussions for a very long time. Thought it would be fun to start one. Any ideas? Has anyone studied the Prayer of Jabez? I just joined a small group here in Glendale on Monday nights and that is the study! Anyone want to discuss this? Just an idea, I'm open to any type of discussion. God Bless!

[Bonner Brice]

I'm game!
Is the prayer of Jabez really all about asking God to multiply your fortunes? Or is there much much more to it? -BB

[Mona Wright]

Hey Shep,
GREAT question! If I am understanding your word, fortunes, in this question I am taking it to mean our "stuff" which I think is a stumbling block for a lot of us. Ask and it will be given to you, whatever you ask in my name will be done, and Jabez saying O God of Israel that you would Bless me INDEED! Taken at face value it would appear that these folks are asking for fortunes or stuff they want in their life. The word Bless is the key word, we have watered the meaning of this word down throughout time and espcially in our world today. But that word actually means God's Will or gifts from God. So, when Jabez was asking for God's Blessings he was actually saying I want the life you have planned for me, Father, and not the one that I have desperately been trying to create for myself. (Ok, so I added the last part of that after the word Father, I'm not sure if Jabez had my same control issues here!) But for sure he was asking for God's will to be done in his life. God has a pile of Blessings stored up for each one of us and He is so excited but patiently waiting for us to receive them. He is willing to pour them out to us by the bucket fulls if we seek Him. Whatever we are suffering with in life He has the antidote but He can't Bless us unless we ask, seek, knock. Then He has a giant big fruit bowl waiting to fill us with His love, joy, peace, and patience, His kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and His self control. And once we get a taste of these Blessings we will never want or ask for anything other than His will to be done in our life! God Bless! And may the river be overflowing with the fruit of His spirit. Mona in Arizona!

[Bonner Brice]

This touches on a lesson that was very profound for me. I one day realized (Not on my own, mind you!) that the closer we are to DOING God's will in our lives, the more "blessed" we are. Now I know what that looks like at first blush, but let me explain. For a long time, I would go around saying "God blessed me for this or that." but it really began to take on the meaning of "He throws me a bone when I do what He wants." - That's wrong! He has a determined BEST POSSIBLE path for me, and when I (accidentally, sometimes) happen to wander onto that path...I feel blessed because my life is playing out His plan...until I wonder off the path again. The trick is trying to recognize (through prayer and communication with Him) what that path is, and guiding yourself to it! The "throwing me a bone for doing things for God" theory is why I see red every time I get one of those e-mails that says if I say the attached prayer and forward it out to everybody in my address book, something wonderful will happen, or my wish will be granted in 24 hours or some such similar nonsense. God doesn't work that way. I Of course He wants what is best for us. Of course He can bless us from time to time at His good pleasure...but again...we can do NOTHING to deserve God's grace. It is a gift. A blessing. -BB from Colorado!

[Mona Wright]

RIGHT ON! I'm in the very same red eye camp! I get furious when my inbox is filled with those e-mails and that was a perfect example of how we have twisted the real meaning of Blessing. I have to share that I have been beyond guilty of waiting for bones. I have been living with that selfish prideful expectation of His Blessings. I thought that since I was a Christian and I love Jesus that whatever I do is good and right and He will bless me and my crazy ideas! I'm the one who has been watering down the definition of Blessing for the last 6 years of my life! It's funny now as I look back and see my silly self on my knees, first praying with excitement to receive His Blessings, then asking Him why He is not listening to me, then crying and begging and throwing a tantrum because I have gotten no Blessings! Shep, you are so right, He has already planned the BEST POSSIBLE and most perfect plan for our life and He is just patiently waiting for us to let go, let it all go, and allow Him to Bless us with His intentions! My intentions have always been good and honorable but I have learned exactly what you are saying, God does not reward us that way, He rewards us when we are obedient to Him. Be still and know that I am God. Or as He recently put it to me, sit down, shut up, and listen!! Bless the River Father God with all YOUR Blessings! ~ Mona in Arizona!

[Bonner Brice]

I am guilty of the same! I walked around (almost pridefully) saying I did this and I was blessed...or He blessed me so much by making a decision to to that...Nope. I imagine in my head (It's a cramped space and kinda dark...but there's room...come on in..!) that God's path for me He set, and I go left and right falling off that path here and there. When I'm not on that path..there I am on the verge of blaming God for not "backing me up." But you know what? The Word doesn't say much about God watching your back...what does it say?! HE WALKS BEFORE US! - Now it seems simple. Just FOLLOW the One walking before us! He loves and blesses us all. He knows in advance the mistakes we will/have made - and HE is there to pick up the pieces and put our foot back on higher ground, if we will recognize that it is Him doing it. Even non-believers have their "best path" laid out in front of them...yet they may have a harder time distinguishing the path from the jungle! I think unbelievers call this Karma or "Luck"...There are those of us who do NOT believe in luck or Karma. When we wander off that path (Oh, yeah...all the time!) we recognize God is walking before us, seek Him out, and follow. Are we blessed at this point? Or are we reaping the benefits of living life closer to His plan? I don't know. But it is FANTASTIC when it happens!

[Bonner Brice]

I had another thought tonight at the gym. (I know...my son anted to start a gym program, so we got a trainer...I'm lucky my fingers are still working enough to type!) Anyway, it seems I've been filled with the Spirit all day....

When I think of the example God gave us about He being the Good Shepherd...what a perfect example. The more I learn about shepherds' practices the more I am in awe! If a sheep (person) gets off the path, the Shepherd drives them back..get this USING HIS VOICE...sheep (people) are stupid, but they recognize their shepherds voice and the will return to the path! Where is He (Shepherd)? He is in the front and they follow. They recognize His voice. If you put multiple herds of sheep together and want to separate them the shepherd calls, and his sheep will follow him! What a parable! The bible says He will call, and those that KNOW HIS voice will follow! Amen! and the bible talks about a lost sheep. What does the Good Shepherd do? He leaves the 99 to seek the one, and when He finds it He carries it back, and there is rejoicing!!! He does not punish the sheep (person) for going astray. He rejoices when He finds it and brings it back to the path. He knows that path! He will guide us to still waters! AND protect us...even in the valley of death we fear not, because He is with us! - Well, I'm starting to preach so I better go to bed!!
Sometimes its hard to be a sheeple...But that may be the point!
Shep

[Mona Wright]

SHEP......THAT, was AMAZING! Oh my gosh, I have goose bumps the size of golf balls. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for taking the time to share this. I especially love the part about Him not punishing the sheep for getting off the track!! I'm not surprised you could type last night right after the gym but I bet today is more of a challenge!! Good for you for starting a work out program! OK, now let's look at the next line from Jabez's prayer. He says, and Please expand my territory or in some translations it might say boundaries. I think this can be taken the wrong way as well, thinking that he meant give me more but what he is asking for is more opportunity to serve God and expand His Kingdom here on earth! So, it's really like the prayer that Jesus used to teach us how to pray, Your Kingdom come, Your will be done........And when we are letting go of all control in all areas and giving ourselves to Him 100% and praying for His Blessings in our life and for Him to bring us more opportunity to share the Good News....BAM, He's going to answer! He is just waiting for us to seek Him and to uncover the gifts that He has wired in us and get busy fulfilling our real purpose here in this life. Those gifts were given to us not for our benefit but for the benefit of others and when we get to a place where we can fully take the me's and my's out of our goals we are on the right track! TGIF.........Mona in Arizona!

[Bonner Brice]

Wow...that IS deep. Can you imagine the scene when Jabez uttered this prayer? Did he say it out loud or did he groan it in his heart? I imagine him on some high place looking over a dry desert scene...groaning in his spirit these thoughts. Although this was a old testament thing...if you read into what he was saying...he quite possibly was asking Christ these things. (although he may not have known this - He didn't know Christ, but believed he was on His way.) I am so out of my element...But I happen to have a great friend who has the MOST biblical knowledge of anyone I know (And may very well be our next Pastor at the River. His name is Paul Medved and he is on RiverNet...I'm getting him into this conversation!) He can shed light on this if anyone can!
Getting back to Jabez. "expand my territory." Obviously not physical territory, real estate, or riches...but a territory of the heart. I sure could use an expansion of my heart territory.
You know, this Sunday we will have the Lord's Supper at The River. I am so looking forward to asking God to examine my heart, and show me my dark corners of my heart...like David...or perhaps Jabez. Let's see what Paul Medved says! Ohhh Paul???!!!

[Paul Medved]

Hey guys,

Bonner, you have me confused with somebody else. I am not well versed in the Scripture, particularly in the OT. Sixteenth-century church history is my strength.

So, as someone interested in history, I am always interested in seeing how Christians approach passages from OT historical books. In this case, I would be interested in discovering more about Jabez in order to better understand his prayer. Yet, in this particular instance, the background information is probably very limited.

Even though the prayer of Jabez is actually a historical event that is recorded in an OT historical text, I believe that one can still extrapolate certain principles about prayer from this event. First, I agree with your discussion concerning blessings. It is acceptable to ask the Lord's blessing on our lives so long as we recognize that His answer may may be unexpected - even uncomfortable. Did you ever hear Ravi Zacharias talk about his friend that was in the North Vietnamese prison camp? If not, it is a great example of a blessing that had the appearance of a curse.

Second, I believe that we can see a parallel between enlarging one's border and expanding one's gospel influence. Although we can't say that these kinds of parallels follow directly from this passage (this was a specific prayer, for a specific purpose, at a specific point in time), nevertheless, such a parallel is certainly consistent with this prayer, and consistent with NT passages on prayer.

Anytime we talk about prayer, we need to keep in mind that all prayer must ultimately conform to God's will (Matt. 6:10). So, we may pray for something that we are sure the Lord wants, but we may be mistaken. That is we need to follow Jesus pattern when he says, "not my will, but Thine" (Matt. 26:39).

Just my two cents.

Pablo

[Bonner Brice]

Paul brings up an interesting point. How many people (Including myself, though I am aware and avoid it now...) pray "God's will be done." Or "Whatever your will be, Father." and then just leave it at that?! We need to consider that when we ask for God's will be done, we have to be willing for His will to be done, but also expect that we are likely to be PART of the method He will use to get His will done. Don't get me wrong, God's will IS going to get done with or without us, but we we need to consider we are asking Him to do His will...we shouldn't just dust off our hands after such a prayer, and think we are done because we asked that His will be done....Like He needs our permission? "Oh" says God, "Bonner went ahead and reminded me that my will be done as I see fit." That whole scenario reminds me a bit too much of the "reprimand" that Job received in His discourse with God!
Just my 1.5 cents. - Bonner

[Mona Wright]

Thank you, Brothers for joining me in this discussion. This is good stuff. I am just so convincted of this truth and while I am ashamed at myself for being guilty of praying for God to Bless ME and MY ideas according to MY plans that I have so carefully layed out before Him, I also keep thinking I'm not alone. I am so darned convicted to shout this as loud as I can for those of us guilty of this to realize what the words really mean that we are speaking to Him. It is so freeing to understand this and to realize WHY all those prayers are not being answered! I am at the point now where the shame and guilt is finally lightening up and I can now laugh about it a bit. I just want others to be set free from this confusion, pain, doubt, fear, etc etc etc and realize even though we might be well meaning good hearted Christians we still have to wait on the Lord and walk where He leads us and that He already has a perfect plan for our lives. We don't have to go to all the trouble of thinking of that perfect idea, writing that perfect business plan, and then try to sell the whole vision to the world, it's a total waste of time! No eye has seen no ear has heard..........His will is PERFECT! I want more of that kind of Blessing!! Oh don't get me wrong, it doesn't mean that we can't have goals and dreams and desires, in fact, a Christian's heart is filled with them, that is one of His many Blessings, I just need to listen for His voice....Shep, I will NEVER forget that lesson from yesterday......THANK YOU! If we listen for His voice and follow it we are living in His will and there is no better place to be! And that is, I believe, the 3rd request that Brother Jabez prayed for.......His hand to be in his life. I think of that request as an extension of praying for God's will, it's praying that God's hand is directing and leading every step that we take, not our own. That God's hand is in guiding our very own hands to do the work that He has planned in advance for us to do, which, Shep, I believe is a good indication that you are right on by saying even though Jabez was OT he was anxiously awaiting in complete confidence that it was Jesus who would fulfill his request. Thank you both again for sharing your hearts and your thoughts I hope there will be much more to come as you have time in your busy days. And know that there are many prayers coming up out of the desert here in Arizona for God's hand to be all over the River and that He will Bless and expand your borders! Enjoy The Lord's Supper this weekend, I can't wait to hear how He moves and Blesses you all. Mona in Arizona!

[Sue Sheehan]

Hi Mona, I just took a few minutes to read through this discussion, and I thoroughly enjoyed it and found it encouraging. Really can't think of anything else to add, but can speak from the perspective of one of the dumb sheep who has stumbled off the path many times because of busyness or distractions and am thankful God has faithfully scooped me back up and turned me back on course. I agree that blessing truly comes when we are walking in God's will and using the gifts and abilities He has given us to further His Kingdom. Our definition of what blessings are and the emphasis of our prayer requests change when our focus changes towards the Lord rather than self. Sorry I can't speak specifically about the Study.
Blessings,
Sue